Pull up vs LPD

[tim]

Hi all,

I was curious as to what others may know in regards to the Pull up "Machines" vs Lat Pull Downs for exercises.

Let me explain why. I am finishing up GBI currently. I am starting the 4th phase this week and I'm at a crossroads as to what to do next. I cannot yet do a full pull up because I am still overweight (but losing). I have been doing LPD's during Stage 1, but in Stage 2 and 3 I used the "pull up machine" (I don't know what it's really called) that has counterweights on it to allow you to actually do a pull up.

I have tried both, and I can see some subtle differences between the two, but it's hard to tell. The LPD allows me to be a little more fine in adjusting the weight, while the pull up machine makes large jumps in weight. Especially in wave setting this becomes difficult because the jumps are 15 lbs each time, meaning I might be able to get 5 reps on the 1st wave, but wave 3 being 30 lbs difference I'd struggle to even get one. But I also feel the machine allows me really PULL my weight up over the handles, which feels a lot different than the LPD both during and after the workout.

Now, in keeping with the concepts of me thinking through the problem first for the answer, let me say that I have tried both ways. I see pluses and minuses in both. Even without input, I will have to make a decision, and the decision will be my own. But I also know my experience is limited to just the last few weeks, and I know that many on this board have experienced much more than I, and may have relevant info that will help me better make my decision. I am at the end of my phase and REALLY want to extract every bit of progress I can through this last phase. My ride on GBI so far has been AMAZING. Every week I'm setting personal bests on the lifts and I want to keep that momentum to the finish.

Thanks in advance for you input.

Tim

[andi_s]

The LPD allows me to be a little more fine in adjusting the weight, while the pull up machine makes large jumps in weight. Especially in wave setting this becomes difficult because the jumps are 15 lbs each time, meaning I might be able to get 5 reps on the 1st wave, but wave 3 being 30 lbs difference I'd struggle to even get one. But I also feel the machine allows me really PULL my weight up over the handles, which feels a lot different than the LPD both during and after the workout.

if you decide going with the pull-ups mashine you could stay with the lower load and add resistance (weight-plates on a belt like with weighted dips or chin ups). e.g. if the next 15lbs jump is too much simply stay with the easier level and add 5lbs as added resistance around your waste.

[tim]

Andi,

I've thought of that but haven't figured out exactly how to do it. No belt that fits at this time. I don't want the weight plate loose on the platform for fear of dropping it during the lift. If I can figure out how to safely do it, this would be my preferred method.

Thanks for the input. I do appreciate it.

Tim

[mike]

Tim,
you say you have noted subtle differences (in the feel) between the assisted and the LPD - however do not expand it. What are the differences you feel?

What type of assist machine are you using - ie. the device that gives the assist is a platform on which you kneel or a bar on which you stand?

[tim]

Mike,

It's hard to explain, but I guess it's the difference is in the sensation of actually pulling my body up as opposed to pulling a bar down. The pull up, even on the machine, is more difficult. It's hard to explain, but I definitely have to psych myself up more to do that pull ups than the LPD. Mental on my part, maybe, but that's where I'm at.

And the machine is one in which you kneel on a platform. There's a weight stack on pulley's to the right side. I don't remember the brand name, but it's at a 24 Hour Fitness gym, so whatever brand they use is the one. I've used a different one at different gym I liked better. But that was only due to the handle. The handle on this machine is much thicker, and harder for me to really wrap my fingers around. The other machine had a thinner grip. Thicker than a LPD bar, but closer.

[Anthony I]

Tim - I'm guessing the machine you're referring to is something like this???

http://www.maximfitness.net/Products/St ... fault.aspx

Thanks!

Anthony

[mike]

If you are preferring the assist - you may try using wrist straps to help with the thickness of the bar. if bar is thick your grip may be challenged and reduce your ability to pull. The wrist straps may allow greater ability to pull.

If you are on a platform- why not pinch needed wt between your knees?

have you explored doing any negatives with a full body pullup (ie. cheat up with a slow lower?)

[tim]

Mike,

I think I am going to try to squeeze a weight. I just hope I don't drop the sucker!

Thanks for the tip on the straps. I just picked some up for the deadlift phase as Stage 3 I finally got to the point on the backoff set where my grip was slipping.

And, I had never tried the negative pullup. Never even thought of it until I watched the video this weekend. (I watch each stage right before I start it, so I JUST watched stage 4). I might give that a go and see how it goes.

Regardless, my goal is to be able to do REAL pullups when I repeat GBI next summer. Once I finish GBI this time, I'm going back to BOM Intermediate through the school year. Then, next summer, I plan to do GBI again and see how I've progressed.

Thanks again for the input guys. I've got some takeaways I can use.

Let me finish by saying, I am having a BLAST with this workout! I've had to take extra rest days here and there because I could tell my body was still "in shock" from the workout. But I've made every rep of every workout so far and I'm pushing weights I could only DREAM of a few months ago. When I finally finish I"m going to put a chart in my workout log of the beginning weights and finishing weights for the basic exercises just to see the full progress. I already know it's HUGE (for me anyway!).

[Jeff]

Tim,
I faced a similar decision for pull ups when I began GBI regarding assisting machines at the gym. Now, I have not been able to do a pull up unassisted, and it was one of the personal challenges within the GB w/o I chose to specifically succeed at. 24 Hr. Fitness had a pneumatic pull up machine that you stood on that I preferred over the kneeling Nautilus machine. I liked the feel of pulling myself up from a standing position, plus the machine was more finely adjustable for loading increments. It took me through GBII to dial the load to "0", but I did an unassisted pull up!
You can imagine how pleased and satisified I felt.
I enjoy reading of your successes, and look forward to hearing more in the future.

[tim]

Anthony,

Yes, it's similar to that machine. No the same, but similar.

Tim

[Jason]

Tim-I believe 24 hr fitness uses StarTrac similar to this

http://www.startrac.com/us-en/Strength/ ... aspx?id=89

If so, in the past I had found using a plate similar to Mike's explanation effective. As well, if your gym has optional add-on plates that are seperate from the stack on the unit, that will allow for greater customization.

Good luck with the p/u's. I know how much of a challenge it is, but the hard work brings great rewards

[tim]

Jason,

That's REALLY close. And I know somewhere in the gym they might have an add on plate roaming around you can put on the weight stack. But I've never been able to find it. Trust me, I looked!

But I am using Mike's advice. We'll see how it goes.

I will say when I started this "fineness" wasn't an issue. I was making gains in leaps and bounds and was able to make the 15 lb jump. But now I'm getting closer to my limits, that fineness is more necessary.

Thanks all for the help.